Jeannine, thank you for the extended and really personalized answers. Sometimes you don’t know what you’re struggling with or leaning towards until someone else writes it down. I’ll be rereading this over a bowl full of raspberries and adding you to my substack favorites.
Oh, the friend thing hits home for me - and many of us, I’d bet.
From 8 years old until about 11, I remember giggling all night long with close girlfriends; we never judged each other. And then… I don’t know something happened at 12 and everything fell apart until I was about 50. Now, I have wonderful girlfriends again; and we giggle and we don’t judge.
It’s sickens me to think that the “something that happened” was competition? We must teach our girls better!
I think it does happen, it happened to me at 12, but it's cultural and when we are 12 we don't know how patriarchy is hurting us and causing us to hurt each other. I'm glad the interview brought you something. Thank you, thank you.
I don’t think it’s *only* competition among girls and women. I think it’s more that we start getting subjected to the troubles of patriarchy when we hit puberty, and it’s so awful, and since we “can’t” take it out on men I see women take it out on each other… but finding female friends who are gentle to one another is absolutely possible! I’ve always had them in my life.
Yes. I have shared all these responses with my 21 y/o daughter- she (& her generation) seem so much more aware than I ever was; and I mean right up until I was about 48. I am learning so much from her and spaces like this- I think back and see that my female relationships were nearly all moldy with patriarchal expectations: sisters, my mother, friends & co-workers, team mates, teachers- coaches-. I was a huge part of the problem too.
Yes — to be honest, I’m on the cusp of 40 and the people I have the most trouble with are women in my family who are Boomers. They’re very cruel to one another (and me, and my cousins) and I can’t help feeling it’s because they were coming of age in the 50s and 60s where there were no spaces where women were really respected. (I’m guessing you’re Gen X so not commenting on that generation, just saying what I’ve observed in my family!). I really wish they’d be more compassionate with one another (and with me) even if I understand the social reasons why they’re this way. But it’s strikingly different from what I see in my generation, and I hope young women today are even more pro-women than we are.
I love that Jeannine mentioned sexual pleasure. It's an important subject that we all feel too bashful about. There's a middle ground between porn and prude and jeannine hit the right note.
I'm 62, married 38 years, and our sex life has never been better. By a wide margin. Experience and comfort talking about sex came to us gradually and then seemingly all at once.
Also, I love fiber and have become allergic to alcohol. Perhaps there's a relationship between that and good sex!
Hahaha actually I have heard that fiber improves libido, for real, like, there is science published in the Journal of Nutrition. It has to do with [science science science gut biome hormones science science]. It was a little scary to mention the sex thing because of my biography, but it had to be said. Thanks, David!
Every once in a while (actually quite often, thank you Sari) a writer really resonates with me and I found myself highlighting phrases and sentences. I want to find out more about studying with Jeannine or attending a writing retreat. I am writing a book about aging as I experience it (I am 84) and would welcome guidance and some aid in shaping my story, not ot mention confidence that it isn't just a narcissistic ramble!
This whole thing just makes me deeply, deeply happy. Do I love every aspect of getting older? No. But am I so incredibly grateful to finally get to so many bits of joy that eluded me in my trauma and obligation-infested life before I turned 40? Yes. How much lighter and clearer I feel now! Jeanine embodies this experience, too, and it makes me glad.
Jeannine, I was captivated by your stories of being a fearless girl (me too!) and how it ended at one point (it was age 10 for me), but then I really paid attention when I saw your snapshot of hanging out in Duluth (I grew up in Duluth and currently live in Minnesota). I can't wait to read The Part That Burns and am so glad I discovered your work. If I were a writer and were to craft a story, it would be to dive into that age when everything changed for me. It wasn't foster care that shaped my story, but I do think there is something profound that happens for many girls around age 10 or 12 in terms of losing their fearlessness and conforming to society's expectations of young women.
I am not a writer and not even sure how I found this Substack, but it is a constant source of new information and inspiration for me. Thank you, Sari, for introducing us to Jeannine!
So so so true (and confirmed by research) about what happens to girls around that age. I’m gonna be speeding through Duluth en route to MPLS today! We’re on our way home from our cabin on the Gunflint!
Aha! I was just visiting Duluth on a grey windy day. Lake Superior is majestic in wild weather. I too have reached my mid 70s and have often reflected on the past and dream of the future, however short.
So so so true (and confirmed by research) about what happens to girls around that age. I’m gonna be speeding through Duluth en route to MPLS today! We’re on our way home from our cabin on the Gunflint!
I too woke up to reading this and, sadly, I believe it is the first Oldster post I’ve ever read. I appreciated the prologue about the intention of the ‘stack’ because I think I haven’t clicked on previous notices because I’m not ‘old’ ;-) But I too am 56 and so . . .
I got chills, the good kind. How inspiring and thought provoking. Immediately I felt that the name of this Substack should be ‘ The Oldest I’ve Ever Been’ —maybe that’s too long a name :-)
Thank you to the host (don’t know your name yet and don’t think I can look it up while I’m commenting rn) and thank you Jeannine. If I’m not mistaken there is an invite to complete this questionnaire for all readers—a lovely offering and one ^of which I hope to take advantage (☮️ & ♥️)
You are so lucky to have stumbled into Sari's Oldster column (and all her substack verticals, as I think they're called.) And Jeannine's now too. They're life changers. Every day we are the oldest we've ever been! I like that.
This is just beautiful and expansive. I had insane caring responsibilities from 7 too…Saying I raised my sister stopped sounding funny and I had to iron my BROTHERS’ school shirts which I’m obvs not over…🤯Thank you for showing us this gorgeous pathway back to our creativity, our writing, ourselves 🩷
Having known Jeannine pre-Substack it's so wonderful to see her featured in another interview. And Sari asked questions which elicited things I hadn't known already. Like not wanting to cut her hair!
Thank you for the morning interview! I ordered your book, memoirs are my favorite, especially when I’ve already gotten “acquainted “ with the author. You touched on many similarities between my life and yours, my childhood was good, despite being kind of sheltered & naive. Hashimotos here, green smoothies every morning! Quit alcohol nearly 5 years ago, feels like poison to me!! What a great change for me. Married 41 years, many curves, bumps in the road. Hubby’s in therapy! Wonderful eye opening changes, helps the marriage. One son passed away at 24 in 2015. We had 4 sons. Being a grandma is the best thing ever! Thank you. I have always wanted to journal and still don’t. It’s one of my goals!
When I read: “My mom used to threaten to call my teachers and tell them the truth about me—what I was really like at home” - I viscerally returned to the times when my mother said those exact words. So hurtful and belittling.
She was still doing it in my late teens. I’d been granted a year long exchange to the US after a competitive selection process - it was a rare honour to be an exchange student! In the months leading up to my departure she repeatedly threatened to call the organisers so they’d cancel my involvement. Such a toxic and nasty person! No wonder I fantasised about the wonderful “mom” I was going to be blessed with in America!
So hurtful for you....Had my fair share of this negativity in different forms....cuts so deep when a mother is intentionally cruel and threatens shaming you. I can remember as a very young child and teenager seeing the shock in other adults faces at her comments. I was threatened with a psychiatrist...it does genuinely make me laugh as I think it would have helped me . Yet here we are...pheonix women.
I too remember noticing other people’s reactions to her behaviour. Overwhelming feeling in my childhood was feeling trapped and powerless under her control. I can still feel it in my body.
At one point she wanted me to go and see the psychologist at the school where she taught. I refused, but looking back I wish I had as he was an amazing guy who I got to know quite well later in my life. I’m sure he would have been able to help me make sense of what was going on.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’ve never heard anyone else describe it! I didn’t even know how to write it. So I kind of just had to say it in the simplest possible language. It’s otherwise indescribable. Thank you for hearing it. And love to you. ❤️
After I commented I sat with the feelings that were coming up in regard to those memories. Trying to pin down what they were. Anger, shame, sadness. And the one that seemed to permeate them all like a liquid in a sponge was the sense of betrayal. 🫥
Love to you too! I’ve just signed up to your Substack as a founding member! 💚
Wow, I really look forward to writing in the dark with you! Reach out with any questions. We have a lot going on at WITD, all so good--it's a truly amazing space and community--but it can take a minute to get oriented because it's so robust; I don't want you to get overwhelmed! And, thank you!!!
Jeannine, thank you for the extended and really personalized answers. Sometimes you don’t know what you’re struggling with or leaning towards until someone else writes it down. I’ll be rereading this over a bowl full of raspberries and adding you to my substack favorites.
That makes me really happy, Michelle. Here's to raspberries (add some flax haha).
😄👍🏼
Thank you Jeannine.
Oh, the friend thing hits home for me - and many of us, I’d bet.
From 8 years old until about 11, I remember giggling all night long with close girlfriends; we never judged each other. And then… I don’t know something happened at 12 and everything fell apart until I was about 50. Now, I have wonderful girlfriends again; and we giggle and we don’t judge.
It’s sickens me to think that the “something that happened” was competition? We must teach our girls better!
I think it does happen, it happened to me at 12, but it's cultural and when we are 12 we don't know how patriarchy is hurting us and causing us to hurt each other. I'm glad the interview brought you something. Thank you, thank you.
I don’t think it’s *only* competition among girls and women. I think it’s more that we start getting subjected to the troubles of patriarchy when we hit puberty, and it’s so awful, and since we “can’t” take it out on men I see women take it out on each other… but finding female friends who are gentle to one another is absolutely possible! I’ve always had them in my life.
Yes. I have shared all these responses with my 21 y/o daughter- she (& her generation) seem so much more aware than I ever was; and I mean right up until I was about 48. I am learning so much from her and spaces like this- I think back and see that my female relationships were nearly all moldy with patriarchal expectations: sisters, my mother, friends & co-workers, team mates, teachers- coaches-. I was a huge part of the problem too.
Yes — to be honest, I’m on the cusp of 40 and the people I have the most trouble with are women in my family who are Boomers. They’re very cruel to one another (and me, and my cousins) and I can’t help feeling it’s because they were coming of age in the 50s and 60s where there were no spaces where women were really respected. (I’m guessing you’re Gen X so not commenting on that generation, just saying what I’ve observed in my family!). I really wish they’d be more compassionate with one another (and with me) even if I understand the social reasons why they’re this way. But it’s strikingly different from what I see in my generation, and I hope young women today are even more pro-women than we are.
*female cousins. They leave male family members very much alone, when they’re not mostly singing their praises!
When you are 9 years old you just jump the fence. "There's a gate over there? Really?"
Then aging becomes "I could jump the fence but I could hurt myself doing it, decisions, decisions".
Then it's " I need to find the gate or I'm not getting in".
I miss being 9.
Me, too.
Right? Nine is such a good age!
I love that Jeannine mentioned sexual pleasure. It's an important subject that we all feel too bashful about. There's a middle ground between porn and prude and jeannine hit the right note.
I'm 62, married 38 years, and our sex life has never been better. By a wide margin. Experience and comfort talking about sex came to us gradually and then seemingly all at once.
Also, I love fiber and have become allergic to alcohol. Perhaps there's a relationship between that and good sex!
Hahaha actually I have heard that fiber improves libido, for real, like, there is science published in the Journal of Nutrition. It has to do with [science science science gut biome hormones science science]. It was a little scary to mention the sex thing because of my biography, but it had to be said. Thanks, David!
Every once in a while (actually quite often, thank you Sari) a writer really resonates with me and I found myself highlighting phrases and sentences. I want to find out more about studying with Jeannine or attending a writing retreat. I am writing a book about aging as I experience it (I am 84) and would welcome guidance and some aid in shaping my story, not ot mention confidence that it isn't just a narcissistic ramble!
Glad to hear!
As a humongous Jeannine-fan, I will tell you that working with her is possibly the best thing you can do for yourself as a writer.
Thanks so much, Diana ❤️
There was so much to savor in this. Jeannine, you are just a beautiful soul and continue to inspire me daily with your gorgeous, open-hearted writing.
I am inspired by you, Abby!!
This whole thing just makes me deeply, deeply happy. Do I love every aspect of getting older? No. But am I so incredibly grateful to finally get to so many bits of joy that eluded me in my trauma and obligation-infested life before I turned 40? Yes. How much lighter and clearer I feel now! Jeanine embodies this experience, too, and it makes me glad.
<3
Thanks so much, Asha ❤️
YES
This: “writing my story reunited me with myself. And to whom does the self belong, if not the self?” Thank you. I needed to hear these words.
Thank you, Peg. I appreciate you so much.
Jeannine, I was captivated by your stories of being a fearless girl (me too!) and how it ended at one point (it was age 10 for me), but then I really paid attention when I saw your snapshot of hanging out in Duluth (I grew up in Duluth and currently live in Minnesota). I can't wait to read The Part That Burns and am so glad I discovered your work. If I were a writer and were to craft a story, it would be to dive into that age when everything changed for me. It wasn't foster care that shaped my story, but I do think there is something profound that happens for many girls around age 10 or 12 in terms of losing their fearlessness and conforming to society's expectations of young women.
I am not a writer and not even sure how I found this Substack, but it is a constant source of new information and inspiration for me. Thank you, Sari, for introducing us to Jeannine!
So so so true (and confirmed by research) about what happens to girls around that age. I’m gonna be speeding through Duluth en route to MPLS today! We’re on our way home from our cabin on the Gunflint!
Too funny...I will be driving through Duluth today as well, en route from Ely. Synchronicity!
Aha! I was just visiting Duluth on a grey windy day. Lake Superior is majestic in wild weather. I too have reached my mid 70s and have often reflected on the past and dream of the future, however short.
So so so true (and confirmed by research) about what happens to girls around that age. I’m gonna be speeding through Duluth en route to MPLS today! We’re on our way home from our cabin on the Gunflint!
I too woke up to reading this and, sadly, I believe it is the first Oldster post I’ve ever read. I appreciated the prologue about the intention of the ‘stack’ because I think I haven’t clicked on previous notices because I’m not ‘old’ ;-) But I too am 56 and so . . .
I got chills, the good kind. How inspiring and thought provoking. Immediately I felt that the name of this Substack should be ‘ The Oldest I’ve Ever Been’ —maybe that’s too long a name :-)
Thank you to the host (don’t know your name yet and don’t think I can look it up while I’m commenting rn) and thank you Jeannine. If I’m not mistaken there is an invite to complete this questionnaire for all readers—a lovely offering and one ^of which I hope to take advantage (☮️ & ♥️)
You are so lucky to have stumbled into Sari's Oldster column (and all her substack verticals, as I think they're called.) And Jeannine's now too. They're life changers. Every day we are the oldest we've ever been! I like that.
What a lovely comment--thank you, Chuck.
Lovely post to wake up to this morning. TY Sari for Oldster
And lovely to wake up to you here, Trish. xo
This is just beautiful and expansive. I had insane caring responsibilities from 7 too…Saying I raised my sister stopped sounding funny and I had to iron my BROTHERS’ school shirts which I’m obvs not over…🤯Thank you for showing us this gorgeous pathway back to our creativity, our writing, ourselves 🩷
<3
Thank you for sharing a bit of that solidarity. Love to you ❤️
Having known Jeannine pre-Substack it's so wonderful to see her featured in another interview. And Sari asked questions which elicited things I hadn't known already. Like not wanting to cut her hair!
<3
I don’t know though— I might change my mind in the hair! Love you a lot, Jill ❤️
I grew mine out at age 60 (chin length anyway) because I still have hair! Grow it while I can. Keep your long hair, it's beautiful. And so are you!
“I’m not as afraid of being loved.”
The “as” says it all. Absolutely gorgeous.
Yes.
Thank you for the morning interview! I ordered your book, memoirs are my favorite, especially when I’ve already gotten “acquainted “ with the author. You touched on many similarities between my life and yours, my childhood was good, despite being kind of sheltered & naive. Hashimotos here, green smoothies every morning! Quit alcohol nearly 5 years ago, feels like poison to me!! What a great change for me. Married 41 years, many curves, bumps in the road. Hubby’s in therapy! Wonderful eye opening changes, helps the marriage. One son passed away at 24 in 2015. We had 4 sons. Being a grandma is the best thing ever! Thank you. I have always wanted to journal and still don’t. It’s one of my goals!
Alcohol feels like poison to me, too. I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing here. <3
I quit drinking too. Absolutely life changing decision!
I’m so sorry for your loss, Sheila, and I’m glad for your words here. I feel camaraderie ❤️
What a great read - thank you.
When I read: “My mom used to threaten to call my teachers and tell them the truth about me—what I was really like at home” - I viscerally returned to the times when my mother said those exact words. So hurtful and belittling.
She was still doing it in my late teens. I’d been granted a year long exchange to the US after a competitive selection process - it was a rare honour to be an exchange student! In the months leading up to my departure she repeatedly threatened to call the organisers so they’d cancel my involvement. Such a toxic and nasty person! No wonder I fantasised about the wonderful “mom” I was going to be blessed with in America!
So hurtful for you....Had my fair share of this negativity in different forms....cuts so deep when a mother is intentionally cruel and threatens shaming you. I can remember as a very young child and teenager seeing the shock in other adults faces at her comments. I was threatened with a psychiatrist...it does genuinely make me laugh as I think it would have helped me . Yet here we are...pheonix women.
I too remember noticing other people’s reactions to her behaviour. Overwhelming feeling in my childhood was feeling trapped and powerless under her control. I can still feel it in my body.
At one point she wanted me to go and see the psychologist at the school where she taught. I refused, but looking back I wish I had as he was an amazing guy who I got to know quite well later in my life. I’m sure he would have been able to help me make sense of what was going on.
Phoenix women - I love that! 🐦🔥
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’ve never heard anyone else describe it! I didn’t even know how to write it. So I kind of just had to say it in the simplest possible language. It’s otherwise indescribable. Thank you for hearing it. And love to you. ❤️
Thank you!
After I commented I sat with the feelings that were coming up in regard to those memories. Trying to pin down what they were. Anger, shame, sadness. And the one that seemed to permeate them all like a liquid in a sponge was the sense of betrayal. 🫥
Love to you too! I’ve just signed up to your Substack as a founding member! 💚
Wow, I really look forward to writing in the dark with you! Reach out with any questions. We have a lot going on at WITD, all so good--it's a truly amazing space and community--but it can take a minute to get oriented because it's so robust; I don't want you to get overwhelmed! And, thank you!!!