Does the performance-driven nature of our culture extend to aging? Do you feel pressure to age competitively with others, in any particular way? An open thread...
What a great question. I do think among some quarters the competition is Who can look youngest the longest? And in other quarters it's Who can look best while old? And then there's Who can look oldest while not caring the most? I think we generate the competition to take our minds off the fact that we're all going to wind up dead.
The competition is endless, it just adapts to the current stage of life - thinnest, prettiest, highest up the corporate ladder, best mother, most graceful ager, whatever it is, women seem to be pitted against each other regardless. Advertising and money making definitely stoke this, but I also we've internalised it to some extent and compare ourselves endlessly for no reason. And, hands up, just because I can the competition doesn't mean I don't engage, old habits are hard to kick.
Fear of not living for me 👍🏼 Not living full potential is its own internal contest, still grounded in societal pressure to DO rather than BE. Death ☠️ is a mystery and an adventure.
For me, it's definitely the fear of death. I've always been terrified of it and getting older just makes me more anxious. (I'm 56; not at death's door as far as I know but way closer than I'd like to be.) I've never been pretty and I'm pretty boring, so fear of losing looks or of settling into a "dull" older life isn't an issue for me.
This is a super thought-provoking question! The thing I find tiresome is that most celebrities who are "aging so well" can afford to spend thousands on cosmetic procedures (who amongst we mortals has not lifted their cheeks up in the mirror, just to see?) Plus, they have staff to prep mango smoothies for them and personal trainers at the gym. Knowing these facts intellectually, why does the average woman still think it's possible/appropriate to "compete" with all that? That said, even though I am doing my best to maintain what I can, I do still feel shame for looking older - it's a kind of sadness, like my (last) chance to be even remotely attractive is closing in on me. I then give myself a fierce pep talk about being shallow and count my (considerable) blessings but it's tiresome to deal with and always leaves me another kind of corrosive shame for even caring.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one giving myself fierce pep talks about being shallow and other of my many failures. Sometimes, I feel as if I'm still in high school, still competing, still losing, still caring too much -- except now I've got wrinkles.
"Feeling shame for looking older." That's what irritates me about the youth oriented thinking. There's no validation for having survived to this age and acquiring the wisdom to have done it. There's no place in our modern society for "revered elders" where those who are younger would come to us oldsters and ask for wisdom or guidance.
Ages ago, anyone who had survived to this age and was happy and comfortable with themselves would have been admired.
There would have been the expectation that someone youthful would aspire to being comfortable in their own skin at later age. And the focus on someone older would be having achieved fulfillment, life's goals, your bucket list, etc. These ACOMPLISHMENTS would be admired by youth as goals to aspire to when they reach our age.
We are missing that in our society and it's really unhealthy.
I very much relate to your comment. And thank you for your insight. You’ve helped me to put my own internal conflict about aging into perspective. When I began dating again last year at 70, I feel that I really bought into the idea that I had to be sexy and attractive to be noticed. Why care? Well I was lonely for one. But I too feel shame for my feelings. I’m trying to get back to just being myself, and accepting those signs of aging on my face and body. I do however feel that my spirit is lively and positive, and I’m trying to move forward with that in mind.
Thank you for saying this, CeCe - I have always had low self-esteem about my appearance so the aging thing can really set me off. But honestly, why does society even want us all to look the SAME? I think your attitude (and most likely everything else!) is top notch and that is the main thing. I love Oldster for its intelligent, wise perspectives, keeping us on the right track and providing a place to meet people like yourself.
I hate the trend of older women in swimsuits — Martha Steward on the cover of Sports Illustrated, Dolly as a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. On one level, great, you go girl. On another level, you can never be more than a body, you must still be thin and pretty even at a revered age. I know that nobody is putting a gun to their head, but it makes me feel like I’m thirteen again and not quite measuring up to these unrealistic body standards. Jane Seymour who at 65 posed nude for Playboy, said that she hoped her shoot would be “inspirational” to older women. I, for one, was not inspired at all, in fact, it just made me wonder why she’d need to prove herself in this way. I say they are leaning into destructive social and cultural mores. “Girls” as side-pieces to the sport — and Playboy, just yuck. (to me! My adult daughters completely disagree.)
I’m thinking wise old bog witch is the best life goal. My friends and I as teens vowed to all live together when old in “Frump Cottage”. We’re all 69 this year and still talking and laughing about it🧙♀️🏡🐈⬛🐈🐕🦺🦮🐑
I still want to look good, for my own dignity but I don't feel I have to look good in a patriarchal, male gaze influenced way. But I agree there is a profound pressure to. So many former models on instagram being aspirational but the gene lottery does not end at 50.
yes!!! I always think that of Pauline Porizkova. Why does she need to so often be half nude? I do not find it inspiring at all.... So many of them seem to couch as a " reclaiming my body' but come on, we all know that you do not need to show your body t the world to 'reclaim' it.
I'm 56 and I have a group of on-line friends around the country (we came together on an attachment parenting board nearly 30 years ago). We are all roughly the same age, crashing around in menopause, caring for elderly parents while launching young adult children. This is a pretty common topic of discussion and one that gets handled gingerly. Some of us are discussing expensive skin cremes and minor surgeries and worrying about thickening middles and others of us are saddened to see that that's still a concern for so many. I was in the sad camp and realized it's a position of privilege. I feel like I hit that sweet spot of attractiveness--I was always "pretty" enough to not worry overmuch about my looks, but not so pretty that it's what I thought made my value. Never thin, but also not fat, bouncing around a 10 lb range (pregnancy aside) without crazy dieting. I have had the same loving partner since I was in my early 20s. So I never *really* felt like I was in the competition in the first place. I've relished the invisibility to Other Men that comes with age and indifference. In my job at a public library, the old dudes flirt with the women that Put in the Effort, giving me not a glance, and I am delighted.
Pet peeve: ads/articles featuring some slender older woman with a "beauty at any age" when clearly this woman has been beautiful at EVERY age. It's not like she had a sudden glow-up at 75. Leave us alone, let us tend to our moss gardens and cast our spells in peace. It doesn't make me feel like I have to compete, but it makes me angry that it's prodding other women who honestly could use a rest.
"... but it makes me angry that it's prodding other women who honestly could use a rest." I'm not quite in the same situation you are, because my circumstances are/have been different, with the exception of casting our spells in peace, but I am definitely a bit privileged, because I fought my way through to being comfortable with myself enough to not give a single f*ck, and whew, it really feels good to be able to say that! So yeah, I hurt for others who are struggling and that prodding really irks the crap out of me. Thank you for expressing that so eloquently. (I'm very late to the party, sorry!)
This is a great question, indeed. At 65 I look back to my 40s and 50s and see someone who was highly competitive in my professional life and the sports I practiced but only with myself. Take on a more difficult job, Mimi; bike that crazy mountain, and such. Life has changed for me in that sense. I still want to have new experiences but am content to walk the same beach or look at the night sky which to me are constantly changing. As for looks, I keep fit because if I don't exercise my body, it fails me; I eat moderately for the same reason. My mother never dyed her hair and after 40 neither have I. My wrinkles and sun spots and sagging this and that are easy to live with on some days, on others I quietly lament. When I am feeling the latter, there's not much to do but take a walk, meet a friend, talk to the cat or whatever. Tomorrow's another day..... I hope.
Yes, there is definitely a competition to age gracefully. I resent that. I'm doing the best I can with what I have and to say that I'm a failure at aging because I have health issues is insulting and dismissive of my life.
Very interesting topic. How often do we look at a photo of a celebrity and say "she looks great!" Or conversely, "she hasn't aged well". When people tell me I look young for my age, I admit that I like that. But I am even happier when they say "your attitude is much younger than 83" I am a lot happier. I think they are telling me that I still have curiosity, a sense of adventure and a desire to interact with the owrld outside my own small bubble of comfort.
Leave it to America, we can turn anything into a competition!
For me, aging and how I want to, I’m 69, is best represented by something that happened last year. I was in a waiting room at a local clinic waiting to be taken back for an ultrasound. A young woman walked out, called “Susan” so I stood and walked over to her. She looked puzzled, asked other identifying questions like last name and dob. When we got to the room she turned to me and said you must be wondering why I was so strange when you walked over after I called your name. She said, it’s because I didn’t think you could possibly be 68. And this is the part that stuck with me; she said it isn’t how you look although you don’t look 68 it’s how you move, how easily you stood up, how quickly you walked over, your posture, and how you carry yourself. I work hard to keep my body moving as easily as possible so I was grateful for the feedback. I like that definition of “youthful”.
I skimmed the comments because I wanted to see how many men were speaking. Out of the 54 comments posted at skim-time only four were from men. Competition to "age well" is very much alive and stuffed into the female psyche on a daily basis. And it's very much about how we LOOK. Some women rebel and some embrace these cultural pushes. The point is that women are a target. These pressures have existed for us since birth and are simply redefined as we age. Social media serves as yet another outlet for defending our aging choices. Naturally we seek out the messages that we most align with for further validation. Finally, I have to wonder....would this question have been posed to you, Sari, if you identified as a man?
I've seen men address this, too. But more often than not, they address it privately, or to a smaller audience. I know men are affected by agism and the pressure to age "the right way," but I also think you're right—it affects women more.
I see this absolutely in play among gay men—a fear of aging, being un-sexy, the competition to look good. Let's ALL reject this destructive narrative! There are so many more important things to focus on in this world. Disability and "health issues" (aging being one of them? ) do not dictate how we can live and love.
I’ve definitely noticed that my brother, at 69, is affected by aging, but he internalizes it. Always a good looking guy, and he still is, he does struggle with the signs of age. As do I.
I had to skim ahead to see if any men were making comments. I just turned another year older. (66 as of the 4th). I've never really cared too much about how I look. I may have won the gene lottery because neither of my parents had a lot of wrinkles, and as a result, neither do I. And I have all my hair, even if it's grey. I've seen guys ten younger than me who look ten years older than me. I worked with a guy who looked twenty, when he was almost forty, and another one who was mid 40's and didn't have a grey hair on his head. As for men looking good, I don't think it really matters as much. Different mindset, or maybe it's as simple as never having been called "ugly" when growing up? I look young, but I'm gaining weight. If I can grow old gracefully, I'll take it; if it doesn't work out like that, well, that's the way it goes. I may grow into a Douglas Fairbanks, Jr., or, well, Jack Elam. It doesn't really matter too much. My wife, on the other hand...
"I've seen men address this, too..." Indeed we do! only we do it all alone and with a beer in hand looking up at the moon, and then we go back inside to be whatever man-role we are supposed to be that day (dad, husband, boyfriend, son-in-law, grandpa, etc.) There's no one to talk to (therapists hit a wall on this topic very quickly) and so men just internalize and they either effectively give up or keep fighting. I do the later but I am also guilty of what Karl Lagerfeld said about men: ""Sweatpants are a sign of defeat. You lost control of your life so you bought some sweatpants,
It’s not that one (which is so memorable) but I don’t remember the title! I went in a Brene binge and somewhere within that content she talked about how a man approached her at one of her speaking events to basically say… what about us? And she responded…what about you? before really taking a hard look at shame from the male perspective.
There is a sense that to age well means not to age at all, to continue one’s life as it has always been despite the changes that age brings. You “have to” remain physically vigorous, muscles well-toned, skin radiant, spirit ever-adventurous. If you accept changes—not walking so far, sleeping later, acknowledging that travel has been more difficult, conceding that not every one of life’s dreams may now be possible—you’re accused of “giving up.” Or worse “letting” yourself get old, as though it were a choice, and a bad one.
I think our culture is set up to make women feel not enough, period. Your two examples are evidence of this. If you're doing things to look younger, you're not aging gracefully. If you're not doing things to look or feel younger then you're not taking care of yourself or taking pride in yourself. I'm sure we can come up with a million similar examples for women at any age (the monologue from America Ferrera in Barbie comes to mind.) In general, I think making people not feel satsifed with who they are and "enough", is big business. That's what is behind this facade of "competition". It is also true to say this also makes this very discussion a discussion of privilege. The experience of the low income aging population is very different from those of us debating hair color.
When there’s money to be made, someone will be marketing an “idea,” or a product to make you dissatisfied with where you’re at naturally!! So yes there’s pressure, but I don’t want to focus totally on that aspect of the modern grandma. Let’s face it, the archetypal grandma is gone … and I for one miss her … and our society needs her!! She’s grey, slightly plump, wise and just a couple miles away. She’s got family pictures on the wall, homemade cookies in the cookie jar, and a couple bucks in her purse that she slips to her grandkids when they want some longed for item.
Now grandma is busy with her Pilates class, on a dating site, and living in another state with a roommate. It’s a disconnected world and young children especially could use a soft-breasted lady to snuggle into and feel all is right in grandma’s lap!
I’m with you. I’m the granny who has enough energy to run around the hands on science museum all day and then go out for ice cream. Bit of a cookie jar failure but we make cookies together sometimes.
That grandma is around but not heralded. This is my mom and she is grandmothering my 9 year old sensitive son beautifully. But then, my mom was never interested in conventional beauty, success or status, so she had nothing to "lose." I also see more of these women in non-white spaces.
I love your distillation of purpose: “the many joys and sorrows of passing through time in a human body.” Age has been good to me so far. At 74, I feel no pressure to emulate Jane Fonda, but that’s because I’m lucky to be slim and still able to wear a strappy sundress without worrying about my upper arms. The luckiest break is my health—no chronic problems except osteoarthritis. Many of my friends have been unlucky, and quite a few didn’t live to be 60. For me losing people is the hardest part of aging. The pain is new every time and never entirely fades, nor should it. The prospect of my death doesn’t trouble me. What troubles me is loved ones dying. I’ll sit down with an old (in both senses) friend and wonder which of us will be first to go. I’ve learned not to mention this. It’s a conversation killer.
Yes, it is the loss of loved ones that hurts the most. The loss of physical attractiveness sometimes get to me, but I'd trade that in a second to have my sister back. She did not make it to seventy. I am almost seventy-three.
I'm personally not in any sort of competition but it's interesting that one exists in our culture. I'm wondering though if it's not just another part of this breakdown that's happened over the last 100 years in our relationship with the natural world. Its almost like dying shouldn't happen, which of course is ridiculous. It's the only thing we can be absolutely sure of. With science and technology, I think is humans have allowed some silly ideas to take root. These ideas convince us we have more agency than we really do. Some diseases have been cured and average lifespans increased but we are living longer than we are designed to. The body hasn't evolved as fast as our technology. I'm very interested in this disconnect between our technology driven world and our species long history as a mammal. 100 years isn't enough time to fully integrate the massive changes that have happened. And so we try to over ride evolution with everything we've got.
I think of this often. It's affecting us emotionally, politically, physically, psychologically - in so many ways. We aren't supposed to live like this.
I spend a great deal of time wandering the forest of Central Oregon. The forest constantly speaks to me of death. There are trees half-standing, half-fallen; the squirrels move deer bones around and chew on them. Ants consume live caterpillars. I live in the forest, and I walk among the trees as I record my podcast and give people Tarot and astrology readings. Death is real. For me, the forest is the teacher on this one.
As a 60-year-old in a director level position, I feel competitive in so many ways, and I’m pissed about it. Aging men in the workplace aren’t seen as “old”the same way women are. They’re given all sorts of passes and respect. The younger women are likely wondering when I’m going to leave so they can take my spot. I’m fit, have good energy, prioritize tech focus in communications and dress well, so they’re a little confused too. I’m the oldest woman on my team, so I guess I win there. I have thought about getting a face lift so I could interview for another job and compete with younger applicants but I’d have to do a video interview so they could see how well I’m aging and maybe choose this interesting “unicorn.” I wish money weren’t a thing and I could retire and be home, away from workplace competition. I’d write, walk and probably wonder if I’d become totally invisible. Maybe that would be the real win for me.
I put personal pressure on myself to stay as fit as possible but the rest of it I leave to the forces of nature. I am well beyond vanity. Functioning from a perspective of ego or fear is no longer a driving force in my life - what a relief.
The fitness is so I can take care of myself and keep riding my bike and going on SCUBA trips or traveling in general. I’m 69 and intend to keep exploring the world for at least another 10 years.
I have enjoyed a case of late onset athleticism so I’ve been on the fitness train since I was newly divorced in my late 30s. I looked young for my age for a long time and honestly never really appreciated my looks anyhow ( I used to be very attractive). That was somewhat due to low self esteem. So really, I never felt competitive as far as looks go.
I’ve been single with a side of short term boyfriends/lovers for 30+ years and I much prefer being single now so it really doesn’t matter to me what people think I look like. I’m just out here living my best life.
I think the best way to get there is to come to grips with the reality that you can’t control what other people think. You can try all you want to influence them into thinking you look younger or better than the next person but ultimately people will think what they want so you might as well do what makes you happy and not worry about what other people think.
Interesting question, though. I’ve been meaning to write something about something lately - maybe I’ll take it on in depth.
That's so interesting that you boil it down to caring what others think because that's exactly what a midlife nutritionist, who I like and follow, posted about last night on Instagram, as the antidote to dieting. https://valschonberg.com/ I think I need to dig into this a little more and would love to read your thoughts if you do post on this.
What a great question. I do think among some quarters the competition is Who can look youngest the longest? And in other quarters it's Who can look best while old? And then there's Who can look oldest while not caring the most? I think we generate the competition to take our minds off the fact that we're all going to wind up dead.
Yes! I also think corporations/advertisers are generating some of these contests.
Absolutely! And social media influencers.
The competition is endless, it just adapts to the current stage of life - thinnest, prettiest, highest up the corporate ladder, best mother, most graceful ager, whatever it is, women seem to be pitted against each other regardless. Advertising and money making definitely stoke this, but I also we've internalised it to some extent and compare ourselves endlessly for no reason. And, hands up, just because I can the competition doesn't mean I don't engage, old habits are hard to kick.
Most graceful ager! love that.
Yes, fear of death sure makes us nuts!!!
Is it fear of death or fear of not living? Social media is filled with people displaying their adventures (and wealth).
Fear of not living for me 👍🏼 Not living full potential is its own internal contest, still grounded in societal pressure to DO rather than BE. Death ☠️ is a mystery and an adventure.
For me, it's definitely the fear of death. I've always been terrified of it and getting older just makes me more anxious. (I'm 56; not at death's door as far as I know but way closer than I'd like to be.) I've never been pretty and I'm pretty boring, so fear of losing looks or of settling into a "dull" older life isn't an issue for me.
And donʻt forget the sexiest old person. Thinking of Jane Fonda as Grace with her younger CEO boyfriend carrying her up the stairs!
Oh, yeah, that's a good one! xo
This is a super thought-provoking question! The thing I find tiresome is that most celebrities who are "aging so well" can afford to spend thousands on cosmetic procedures (who amongst we mortals has not lifted their cheeks up in the mirror, just to see?) Plus, they have staff to prep mango smoothies for them and personal trainers at the gym. Knowing these facts intellectually, why does the average woman still think it's possible/appropriate to "compete" with all that? That said, even though I am doing my best to maintain what I can, I do still feel shame for looking older - it's a kind of sadness, like my (last) chance to be even remotely attractive is closing in on me. I then give myself a fierce pep talk about being shallow and count my (considerable) blessings but it's tiresome to deal with and always leaves me another kind of corrosive shame for even caring.
You write about the sadness and sense of shame so beautifully. Thank you for naming this and being brave enough to share it.
Thank you so much - you are kind.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one giving myself fierce pep talks about being shallow and other of my many failures. Sometimes, I feel as if I'm still in high school, still competing, still losing, still caring too much -- except now I've got wrinkles.
You are not alone! We should all be nicer to ourselves, myself included.
"Feeling shame for looking older." That's what irritates me about the youth oriented thinking. There's no validation for having survived to this age and acquiring the wisdom to have done it. There's no place in our modern society for "revered elders" where those who are younger would come to us oldsters and ask for wisdom or guidance.
Ages ago, anyone who had survived to this age and was happy and comfortable with themselves would have been admired.
There would have been the expectation that someone youthful would aspire to being comfortable in their own skin at later age. And the focus on someone older would be having achieved fulfillment, life's goals, your bucket list, etc. These ACOMPLISHMENTS would be admired by youth as goals to aspire to when they reach our age.
We are missing that in our society and it's really unhealthy.
I very much relate to your comment. And thank you for your insight. You’ve helped me to put my own internal conflict about aging into perspective. When I began dating again last year at 70, I feel that I really bought into the idea that I had to be sexy and attractive to be noticed. Why care? Well I was lonely for one. But I too feel shame for my feelings. I’m trying to get back to just being myself, and accepting those signs of aging on my face and body. I do however feel that my spirit is lively and positive, and I’m trying to move forward with that in mind.
Thank you for saying this, CeCe - I have always had low self-esteem about my appearance so the aging thing can really set me off. But honestly, why does society even want us all to look the SAME? I think your attitude (and most likely everything else!) is top notch and that is the main thing. I love Oldster for its intelligent, wise perspectives, keeping us on the right track and providing a place to meet people like yourself.
Thank you Sue. Oldster is a gift. And thanks for your own gift of wisdom.
I hate the trend of older women in swimsuits — Martha Steward on the cover of Sports Illustrated, Dolly as a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. On one level, great, you go girl. On another level, you can never be more than a body, you must still be thin and pretty even at a revered age. I know that nobody is putting a gun to their head, but it makes me feel like I’m thirteen again and not quite measuring up to these unrealistic body standards. Jane Seymour who at 65 posed nude for Playboy, said that she hoped her shoot would be “inspirational” to older women. I, for one, was not inspired at all, in fact, it just made me wonder why she’d need to prove herself in this way. I say they are leaning into destructive social and cultural mores. “Girls” as side-pieces to the sport — and Playboy, just yuck. (to me! My adult daughters completely disagree.)
yes! for godsakes, can I not just revel in being invisible? Just let me be a wise old bog witch with no expectation of being "sexy."
I’m thinking wise old bog witch is the best life goal. My friends and I as teens vowed to all live together when old in “Frump Cottage”. We’re all 69 this year and still talking and laughing about it🧙♀️🏡🐈⬛🐈🐕🦺🦮🐑
😂😂😂 You win the internet with this answer 👏
I feel this.
Love this.
I still want to look good, for my own dignity but I don't feel I have to look good in a patriarchal, male gaze influenced way. But I agree there is a profound pressure to. So many former models on instagram being aspirational but the gene lottery does not end at 50.
Amen.
Amen amen!
yes!!! I always think that of Pauline Porizkova. Why does she need to so often be half nude? I do not find it inspiring at all.... So many of them seem to couch as a " reclaiming my body' but come on, we all know that you do not need to show your body t the world to 'reclaim' it.
Completely agree.
I'm 56 and I have a group of on-line friends around the country (we came together on an attachment parenting board nearly 30 years ago). We are all roughly the same age, crashing around in menopause, caring for elderly parents while launching young adult children. This is a pretty common topic of discussion and one that gets handled gingerly. Some of us are discussing expensive skin cremes and minor surgeries and worrying about thickening middles and others of us are saddened to see that that's still a concern for so many. I was in the sad camp and realized it's a position of privilege. I feel like I hit that sweet spot of attractiveness--I was always "pretty" enough to not worry overmuch about my looks, but not so pretty that it's what I thought made my value. Never thin, but also not fat, bouncing around a 10 lb range (pregnancy aside) without crazy dieting. I have had the same loving partner since I was in my early 20s. So I never *really* felt like I was in the competition in the first place. I've relished the invisibility to Other Men that comes with age and indifference. In my job at a public library, the old dudes flirt with the women that Put in the Effort, giving me not a glance, and I am delighted.
Pet peeve: ads/articles featuring some slender older woman with a "beauty at any age" when clearly this woman has been beautiful at EVERY age. It's not like she had a sudden glow-up at 75. Leave us alone, let us tend to our moss gardens and cast our spells in peace. It doesn't make me feel like I have to compete, but it makes me angry that it's prodding other women who honestly could use a rest.
"Leave us alone, let us tend to our moss gardens and cast our spells in peace."
This is EVERYTHING. :)
I want the t-shirt.
Yes please, letʻs make that t-shirt. Can we have an entire Oldster line with the best of our collective F-youʻs?
Oh Gods, please!
yes, this is everything!
YESSSSSSSS
Tend to our moss gardens and cast our spells in peace. I’m here for it.
"... but it makes me angry that it's prodding other women who honestly could use a rest." I'm not quite in the same situation you are, because my circumstances are/have been different, with the exception of casting our spells in peace, but I am definitely a bit privileged, because I fought my way through to being comfortable with myself enough to not give a single f*ck, and whew, it really feels good to be able to say that! So yeah, I hurt for others who are struggling and that prodding really irks the crap out of me. Thank you for expressing that so eloquently. (I'm very late to the party, sorry!)
This is a great question, indeed. At 65 I look back to my 40s and 50s and see someone who was highly competitive in my professional life and the sports I practiced but only with myself. Take on a more difficult job, Mimi; bike that crazy mountain, and such. Life has changed for me in that sense. I still want to have new experiences but am content to walk the same beach or look at the night sky which to me are constantly changing. As for looks, I keep fit because if I don't exercise my body, it fails me; I eat moderately for the same reason. My mother never dyed her hair and after 40 neither have I. My wrinkles and sun spots and sagging this and that are easy to live with on some days, on others I quietly lament. When I am feeling the latter, there's not much to do but take a walk, meet a friend, talk to the cat or whatever. Tomorrow's another day..... I hope.
Yes, there is definitely a competition to age gracefully. I resent that. I'm doing the best I can with what I have and to say that I'm a failure at aging because I have health issues is insulting and dismissive of my life.
Very interesting topic. How often do we look at a photo of a celebrity and say "she looks great!" Or conversely, "she hasn't aged well". When people tell me I look young for my age, I admit that I like that. But I am even happier when they say "your attitude is much younger than 83" I am a lot happier. I think they are telling me that I still have curiosity, a sense of adventure and a desire to interact with the owrld outside my own small bubble of comfort.
Leave it to America, we can turn anything into a competition!
For me, aging and how I want to, I’m 69, is best represented by something that happened last year. I was in a waiting room at a local clinic waiting to be taken back for an ultrasound. A young woman walked out, called “Susan” so I stood and walked over to her. She looked puzzled, asked other identifying questions like last name and dob. When we got to the room she turned to me and said you must be wondering why I was so strange when you walked over after I called your name. She said, it’s because I didn’t think you could possibly be 68. And this is the part that stuck with me; she said it isn’t how you look although you don’t look 68 it’s how you move, how easily you stood up, how quickly you walked over, your posture, and how you carry yourself. I work hard to keep my body moving as easily as possible so I was grateful for the feedback. I like that definition of “youthful”.
I get that. Because of the focus on youth and anti-aging one can forget it is a privilege to age!
I skimmed the comments because I wanted to see how many men were speaking. Out of the 54 comments posted at skim-time only four were from men. Competition to "age well" is very much alive and stuffed into the female psyche on a daily basis. And it's very much about how we LOOK. Some women rebel and some embrace these cultural pushes. The point is that women are a target. These pressures have existed for us since birth and are simply redefined as we age. Social media serves as yet another outlet for defending our aging choices. Naturally we seek out the messages that we most align with for further validation. Finally, I have to wonder....would this question have been posed to you, Sari, if you identified as a man?
I've seen men address this, too. But more often than not, they address it privately, or to a smaller audience. I know men are affected by agism and the pressure to age "the right way," but I also think you're right—it affects women more.
I see this absolutely in play among gay men—a fear of aging, being un-sexy, the competition to look good. Let's ALL reject this destructive narrative! There are so many more important things to focus on in this world. Disability and "health issues" (aging being one of them? ) do not dictate how we can live and love.
I’ve definitely noticed that my brother, at 69, is affected by aging, but he internalizes it. Always a good looking guy, and he still is, he does struggle with the signs of age. As do I.
I had to skim ahead to see if any men were making comments. I just turned another year older. (66 as of the 4th). I've never really cared too much about how I look. I may have won the gene lottery because neither of my parents had a lot of wrinkles, and as a result, neither do I. And I have all my hair, even if it's grey. I've seen guys ten younger than me who look ten years older than me. I worked with a guy who looked twenty, when he was almost forty, and another one who was mid 40's and didn't have a grey hair on his head. As for men looking good, I don't think it really matters as much. Different mindset, or maybe it's as simple as never having been called "ugly" when growing up? I look young, but I'm gaining weight. If I can grow old gracefully, I'll take it; if it doesn't work out like that, well, that's the way it goes. I may grow into a Douglas Fairbanks, Jr., or, well, Jack Elam. It doesn't really matter too much. My wife, on the other hand...
"And it's very much about how we LOOK"
Life is better when it becomes "Very much about how we feel!" We have to take care of ourselves.
"I've seen men address this, too..." Indeed we do! only we do it all alone and with a beer in hand looking up at the moon, and then we go back inside to be whatever man-role we are supposed to be that day (dad, husband, boyfriend, son-in-law, grandpa, etc.) There's no one to talk to (therapists hit a wall on this topic very quickly) and so men just internalize and they either effectively give up or keep fighting. I do the later but I am also guilty of what Karl Lagerfeld said about men: ""Sweatpants are a sign of defeat. You lost control of your life so you bought some sweatpants,
😂 “Sweatpants.”
Brene Brown addresses the therapist/man issue in one of her Ted Talks.
she's great! do you have a link? is this the "man in the arena" speech?
It’s not that one (which is so memorable) but I don’t remember the title! I went in a Brene binge and somewhere within that content she talked about how a man approached her at one of her speaking events to basically say… what about us? And she responded…what about you? before really taking a hard look at shame from the male perspective.
thanks! I will keep an eye out!
I just adore her. This makes me want to binge all of her Ted Talks!
There is a sense that to age well means not to age at all, to continue one’s life as it has always been despite the changes that age brings. You “have to” remain physically vigorous, muscles well-toned, skin radiant, spirit ever-adventurous. If you accept changes—not walking so far, sleeping later, acknowledging that travel has been more difficult, conceding that not every one of life’s dreams may now be possible—you’re accused of “giving up.” Or worse “letting” yourself get old, as though it were a choice, and a bad one.
This.
I think our culture is set up to make women feel not enough, period. Your two examples are evidence of this. If you're doing things to look younger, you're not aging gracefully. If you're not doing things to look or feel younger then you're not taking care of yourself or taking pride in yourself. I'm sure we can come up with a million similar examples for women at any age (the monologue from America Ferrera in Barbie comes to mind.) In general, I think making people not feel satsifed with who they are and "enough", is big business. That's what is behind this facade of "competition". It is also true to say this also makes this very discussion a discussion of privilege. The experience of the low income aging population is very different from those of us debating hair color.
When there’s money to be made, someone will be marketing an “idea,” or a product to make you dissatisfied with where you’re at naturally!! So yes there’s pressure, but I don’t want to focus totally on that aspect of the modern grandma. Let’s face it, the archetypal grandma is gone … and I for one miss her … and our society needs her!! She’s grey, slightly plump, wise and just a couple miles away. She’s got family pictures on the wall, homemade cookies in the cookie jar, and a couple bucks in her purse that she slips to her grandkids when they want some longed for item.
Now grandma is busy with her Pilates class, on a dating site, and living in another state with a roommate. It’s a disconnected world and young children especially could use a soft-breasted lady to snuggle into and feel all is right in grandma’s lap!
Good point, but I want to be the nurturing grandma who goes to pilates and explores the world on my days off. Does the archetype need updating?
I’m with you. I’m the granny who has enough energy to run around the hands on science museum all day and then go out for ice cream. Bit of a cookie jar failure but we make cookies together sometimes.
This is such a great point! Where is that grandma archetype today?
Wah!!! I miss that grandma too!!
That grandma is around but not heralded. This is my mom and she is grandmothering my 9 year old sensitive son beautifully. But then, my mom was never interested in conventional beauty, success or status, so she had nothing to "lose." I also see more of these women in non-white spaces.
I wanna be that grandma, so bad!
I love your distillation of purpose: “the many joys and sorrows of passing through time in a human body.” Age has been good to me so far. At 74, I feel no pressure to emulate Jane Fonda, but that’s because I’m lucky to be slim and still able to wear a strappy sundress without worrying about my upper arms. The luckiest break is my health—no chronic problems except osteoarthritis. Many of my friends have been unlucky, and quite a few didn’t live to be 60. For me losing people is the hardest part of aging. The pain is new every time and never entirely fades, nor should it. The prospect of my death doesn’t trouble me. What troubles me is loved ones dying. I’ll sit down with an old (in both senses) friend and wonder which of us will be first to go. I’ve learned not to mention this. It’s a conversation killer.
Yes, it is the loss of loved ones that hurts the most. The loss of physical attractiveness sometimes get to me, but I'd trade that in a second to have my sister back. She did not make it to seventy. I am almost seventy-three.
Paula, I am so sorry. My sister turned 70 last year and I felt blessed to celebrate with her. I know how bereft I'd be without her.
Rona, How very kind of you to reply.
Paula
I'm personally not in any sort of competition but it's interesting that one exists in our culture. I'm wondering though if it's not just another part of this breakdown that's happened over the last 100 years in our relationship with the natural world. Its almost like dying shouldn't happen, which of course is ridiculous. It's the only thing we can be absolutely sure of. With science and technology, I think is humans have allowed some silly ideas to take root. These ideas convince us we have more agency than we really do. Some diseases have been cured and average lifespans increased but we are living longer than we are designed to. The body hasn't evolved as fast as our technology. I'm very interested in this disconnect between our technology driven world and our species long history as a mammal. 100 years isn't enough time to fully integrate the massive changes that have happened. And so we try to over ride evolution with everything we've got.
More accurately we try to over ride aging.
I think of this often. It's affecting us emotionally, politically, physically, psychologically - in so many ways. We aren't supposed to live like this.
I spend a great deal of time wandering the forest of Central Oregon. The forest constantly speaks to me of death. There are trees half-standing, half-fallen; the squirrels move deer bones around and chew on them. Ants consume live caterpillars. I live in the forest, and I walk among the trees as I record my podcast and give people Tarot and astrology readings. Death is real. For me, the forest is the teacher on this one.
As a 60-year-old in a director level position, I feel competitive in so many ways, and I’m pissed about it. Aging men in the workplace aren’t seen as “old”the same way women are. They’re given all sorts of passes and respect. The younger women are likely wondering when I’m going to leave so they can take my spot. I’m fit, have good energy, prioritize tech focus in communications and dress well, so they’re a little confused too. I’m the oldest woman on my team, so I guess I win there. I have thought about getting a face lift so I could interview for another job and compete with younger applicants but I’d have to do a video interview so they could see how well I’m aging and maybe choose this interesting “unicorn.” I wish money weren’t a thing and I could retire and be home, away from workplace competition. I’d write, walk and probably wonder if I’d become totally invisible. Maybe that would be the real win for me.
Oh Julie, it sounds awful. Not feeling free to be oneself is exhausted.
I put personal pressure on myself to stay as fit as possible but the rest of it I leave to the forces of nature. I am well beyond vanity. Functioning from a perspective of ego or fear is no longer a driving force in my life - what a relief.
The fitness is so I can take care of myself and keep riding my bike and going on SCUBA trips or traveling in general. I’m 69 and intend to keep exploring the world for at least another 10 years.
Were you always at this place? If not, at what age did you start to feel this and any tips on how to get there?
I have enjoyed a case of late onset athleticism so I’ve been on the fitness train since I was newly divorced in my late 30s. I looked young for my age for a long time and honestly never really appreciated my looks anyhow ( I used to be very attractive). That was somewhat due to low self esteem. So really, I never felt competitive as far as looks go.
I’ve been single with a side of short term boyfriends/lovers for 30+ years and I much prefer being single now so it really doesn’t matter to me what people think I look like. I’m just out here living my best life.
I think the best way to get there is to come to grips with the reality that you can’t control what other people think. You can try all you want to influence them into thinking you look younger or better than the next person but ultimately people will think what they want so you might as well do what makes you happy and not worry about what other people think.
Interesting question, though. I’ve been meaning to write something about something lately - maybe I’ll take it on in depth.
You’re very wise. And I appreciate your perspective.
That's so interesting that you boil it down to caring what others think because that's exactly what a midlife nutritionist, who I like and follow, posted about last night on Instagram, as the antidote to dieting. https://valschonberg.com/ I think I need to dig into this a little more and would love to read your thoughts if you do post on this.
If you subscribe to my newsletter you will! I have no paid option so it’s low risk.
Caring what other people think is the work of the devil! 😜