A new occasional Oldster Magazine column from former music executive Cliff Chenfeld, this one on: The unprecedented lasting influence of music from the '60s and '70s. Plus: 10 new songs for old ears.
Not 100% analogous, but this column reminded me of a line from Billy Crystal's standup in the late 80s: "You know you're old when your kid comes to you and says, 'Hey, dad, did you know Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings?'"
I enjoyed this. Liked the points about emotionally heightened youth when music meant so much to us, and the relative lack of distraction around music back then. I remember coming home with a new album and playing on repeat, studying the lyrics and liner notes. Loved that.
Agree 100% I learned so much from Bowie/Roxy Music liner notes - and lyrics - and took the time to explore their original sources (The 'Jean Genie' was apparently Jean Genet!) I also particularly despair at the indifference to sound +quality* in today's yoof. Back in the day, the coolest boys always had amazing sound systems set up, knew about the importance of speaker separation. Handing someone your phone to listen seems so ... unfortunate, lol.
Fun read! I think maybe the youngers know these songs because they grew up listening to them with their parents, and, it's a form of comfort in a way. My parents were Mitch Miller and Lawrence Welk fans. Later they moved onto Don Ho and The Tijuana Brass. You hardly ever hear those songs anymore.
When I do hear a bit of Tijuana Brass it still makes me smile. Me, I was a Grateful Dead, Airplane, Janis Joplin and Creedence fan! Oh and Blues Traveler. My daughter likes those too, forced to listen to them anyway while she was growing up. We have a weekly meetup with friends who play their guitars, ukes, harmonica and keyboard. They play songs from Patsy Cline era to present songs, some originals. It's a whole thing. A lot of seventies sing alongs too. Music is woven into our lives.
I think an underrated part of this is that music in the 1950s and onward started to be much higher fidelity. When you compare sonic quality of today to 1980 it’s not that much different. When you compare that of 1970 to 1940 it is.
I’ve heard people make this observation before — though more often in an anti-nostalgic way, where they think it’s irritating that these songs are still popular among people born after they were recorded. But I do think it does gloss over something: there actually was plenty of musical influence from the 1920s, ‘30s and ‘40s that was beloved by listeners in the ‘60s and ‘70s, namely in the fields of folk, bluegrass, and blues. Robert Johnson alone was a major influence on the British blues-rock scene, just like Woody Guthrie was on that generation of folk-indebted singer-songwriters. Even big band had a bit of a resurgence thanks to Dr. Buzzard’s Original Savannah Band. So I don’t think it’s that strange pop music from two generations ago still perseveres — in fact, I think it’s weirder to assume it could only speak to the generation that recorded it and listened to it when it was new.
I loved this column too. Was reminded of a line from the Big Chill when someone teases Kevin Kline's character about listening to the same old music and he says something like there is no other music in my house. I did love some of the eighties songs but nothing will ever replace the songs I grew up on in the sixties and early seventies.
My 23 year old grandson believes that playing Guitar Hero exposed him to my generation's great bands - and thinking about that, BANDS. Now we have singers, entertainers, performers. They in turn have musicians, backups... but we were the generation of BANDS. We knew all the members and every person was important in putting on the show. Will we ever return to this style of musical performance?
I sold merch this weekend for my husband's punk band, which formed in 1978. The clubs were full of kids who knew their work, sang along, moshed. The music lovers really do have a breadth of knowledge and an open-heartedness and acceptance of elder musicians that I never would have had.
My theory is that the early punk bands were mostly nerve popular enough to be a part of nostalgia, so younger people get to experience their own sense of discovery.
It blew my mind when my friend’s daughter knew the band Bush (a 90s grunge band) and all their lyrics…she’s 11!🤯 It really does seem like kids today have a preference for the past. And even myself loving Jethro Tull when it comes on today😂 my dad used to play it all the time and we hated it back then. But it’s just good music, you can’t deny it!
Love this. Almost monthly I get into a discussion with someone my age who talks about how today's music doesn't make sense to them and why can't young peolle like music when "it was good". I then point out that would be like us in the 80's, being hop, and stopping to listen to Benny Goodman and have to do the math to prove it
I begged for, and got, a stereo for Christmas when I was in university in the early 1980s. I never really expected to get one as a gift, but my dad had a good year at work with a good bonus. My parents sent me on a treasure hunt to find it and I cried when I saw it. It was a combination turntable/cassette player/AM/FM radio with two big speakers, vs the big component systems the guys all had -- but it was good enough! When we downsized to a condo a few years ago, I still had it, and passed it on, along with my vinyl collection, to our nephew (who is now 35). (I couldn't stand to see him paying $40 or more for the very same classic rock albums that were sitting in my basement...!) It's the focal point of their built-in shelving unit, and I smile every time I visit and see it there. (I also can never resist checking out what album is sitting on the turntable, lol.)
My daughter and her boyfriend are 23 years old. They love a mixture of "our music" - I'm a baby boomer - and contemporary. They have also mentioned often that lots of contemporary music feels very commercial and created based on stats for success more than on creativity and that's why it's rarely interesting.
Nice column. I think of the approaching summer here when breweries invite the live bands to play; some play music from the 60s and 70s, while others play more contemporary music, but there's nothing like the experience of a live performance, even if it's just one musician on a guitar.
There was something surprisingly clarifying about Chenfeld's observations; like something you imagine to be true, but you're not sure you can claim it. Placing the idea of a 1975 concert where attendees of a young age are enjoying previous decades' music as they amble in, etc., was actually humorous -- and highlights the question "yeah, why don't they like Patti Page and Harry James?" As a baby boomer listening to music in sex, drugs and rock 'n roll era, my musical heroes and heroines seemed to imprint on me like they'd raised me. Some recent research talks about memories from adolescence being the most vivid; perhaps that's a factor. When I brought home a Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Jefferson Airplane, Procol Harum, Country Joe and the Fish, Phil Ochs VINYL, slouching back on my teen-age bed and reading the liner notes on the back (what a pleasure) could take up a whole afternoon. I think the essay is on potentially solid ground in linking the music of the 60s, 70s eras to the tumultuous events of the time. My heart was broken when I was 16 when my then boyfriend joined the Weather Underground, along with several close friends. Identifying as a "hippie chick" meant the world of connection and sexuality was open to me, and very prominent (even if it led to trauma, as it did for many women of that era). Long-hairs were smiling and nodding at each other on citystreets. Some of the earliest concerts I went to are also vivid: Donovan, Rolling Stones, Dylan (they booed when he did the electric set), and a prominent memory of Jefferson Airplane at a Boston venue -- I'm probably 18, and a beautiful young woman danced across the stage in a see-through American flag, naked underneath. I remember feeling a rush of anxiety as "We are all outlaws in the eyes of America" rang out. What would happen next? Would this lead to an orgy? I was young and scared. Hosting a freeform radio show (WPKN) for multiple decades, I like to swing between the contemporary and folk/psychedelic. I'm glad Chenfeld described this phenomenon so well.
Not 100% analogous, but this column reminded me of a line from Billy Crystal's standup in the late 80s: "You know you're old when your kid comes to you and says, 'Hey, dad, did you know Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings?'"
Love it! Billy Crystal is the best.
I enjoyed this. Liked the points about emotionally heightened youth when music meant so much to us, and the relative lack of distraction around music back then. I remember coming home with a new album and playing on repeat, studying the lyrics and liner notes. Loved that.
Agree 100% I learned so much from Bowie/Roxy Music liner notes - and lyrics - and took the time to explore their original sources (The 'Jean Genie' was apparently Jean Genet!) I also particularly despair at the indifference to sound +quality* in today's yoof. Back in the day, the coolest boys always had amazing sound systems set up, knew about the importance of speaker separation. Handing someone your phone to listen seems so ... unfortunate, lol.
Did not know that about Jean Genet!
Fun read! I think maybe the youngers know these songs because they grew up listening to them with their parents, and, it's a form of comfort in a way. My parents were Mitch Miller and Lawrence Welk fans. Later they moved onto Don Ho and The Tijuana Brass. You hardly ever hear those songs anymore.
When I do hear a bit of Tijuana Brass it still makes me smile. Me, I was a Grateful Dead, Airplane, Janis Joplin and Creedence fan! Oh and Blues Traveler. My daughter likes those too, forced to listen to them anyway while she was growing up. We have a weekly meetup with friends who play their guitars, ukes, harmonica and keyboard. They play songs from Patsy Cline era to present songs, some originals. It's a whole thing. A lot of seventies sing alongs too. Music is woven into our lives.
I think an underrated part of this is that music in the 1950s and onward started to be much higher fidelity. When you compare sonic quality of today to 1980 it’s not that much different. When you compare that of 1970 to 1940 it is.
Interesting point. Thanks.
I’ve heard people make this observation before — though more often in an anti-nostalgic way, where they think it’s irritating that these songs are still popular among people born after they were recorded. But I do think it does gloss over something: there actually was plenty of musical influence from the 1920s, ‘30s and ‘40s that was beloved by listeners in the ‘60s and ‘70s, namely in the fields of folk, bluegrass, and blues. Robert Johnson alone was a major influence on the British blues-rock scene, just like Woody Guthrie was on that generation of folk-indebted singer-songwriters. Even big band had a bit of a resurgence thanks to Dr. Buzzard’s Original Savannah Band. So I don’t think it’s that strange pop music from two generations ago still perseveres — in fact, I think it’s weirder to assume it could only speak to the generation that recorded it and listened to it when it was new.
Interesting point. Thanks for weighing in.
I loved this column too. Was reminded of a line from the Big Chill when someone teases Kevin Kline's character about listening to the same old music and he says something like there is no other music in my house. I did love some of the eighties songs but nothing will ever replace the songs I grew up on in the sixties and early seventies.
My 23 year old grandson believes that playing Guitar Hero exposed him to my generation's great bands - and thinking about that, BANDS. Now we have singers, entertainers, performers. They in turn have musicians, backups... but we were the generation of BANDS. We knew all the members and every person was important in putting on the show. Will we ever return to this style of musical performance?
I sold merch this weekend for my husband's punk band, which formed in 1978. The clubs were full of kids who knew their work, sang along, moshed. The music lovers really do have a breadth of knowledge and an open-heartedness and acceptance of elder musicians that I never would have had.
Yes, and more of these Long Time Gone columns PLEASE!
My theory is that the early punk bands were mostly nerve popular enough to be a part of nostalgia, so younger people get to experience their own sense of discovery.
It blew my mind when my friend’s daughter knew the band Bush (a 90s grunge band) and all their lyrics…she’s 11!🤯 It really does seem like kids today have a preference for the past. And even myself loving Jethro Tull when it comes on today😂 my dad used to play it all the time and we hated it back then. But it’s just good music, you can’t deny it!
Love this. Almost monthly I get into a discussion with someone my age who talks about how today's music doesn't make sense to them and why can't young peolle like music when "it was good". I then point out that would be like us in the 80's, being hop, and stopping to listen to Benny Goodman and have to do the math to prove it
ooh, great point. Yes, I remember my college stereo system with great fondness. I worked and saved so hard for it!
I begged for, and got, a stereo for Christmas when I was in university in the early 1980s. I never really expected to get one as a gift, but my dad had a good year at work with a good bonus. My parents sent me on a treasure hunt to find it and I cried when I saw it. It was a combination turntable/cassette player/AM/FM radio with two big speakers, vs the big component systems the guys all had -- but it was good enough! When we downsized to a condo a few years ago, I still had it, and passed it on, along with my vinyl collection, to our nephew (who is now 35). (I couldn't stand to see him paying $40 or more for the very same classic rock albums that were sitting in my basement...!) It's the focal point of their built-in shelving unit, and I smile every time I visit and see it there. (I also can never resist checking out what album is sitting on the turntable, lol.)
Love this.
My daughter and her boyfriend are 23 years old. They love a mixture of "our music" - I'm a baby boomer - and contemporary. They have also mentioned often that lots of contemporary music feels very commercial and created based on stats for success more than on creativity and that's why it's rarely interesting.
Thanks for the playlist! Can’t wait to explore it.
Nice column. I think of the approaching summer here when breweries invite the live bands to play; some play music from the 60s and 70s, while others play more contemporary music, but there's nothing like the experience of a live performance, even if it's just one musician on a guitar.
There was something surprisingly clarifying about Chenfeld's observations; like something you imagine to be true, but you're not sure you can claim it. Placing the idea of a 1975 concert where attendees of a young age are enjoying previous decades' music as they amble in, etc., was actually humorous -- and highlights the question "yeah, why don't they like Patti Page and Harry James?" As a baby boomer listening to music in sex, drugs and rock 'n roll era, my musical heroes and heroines seemed to imprint on me like they'd raised me. Some recent research talks about memories from adolescence being the most vivid; perhaps that's a factor. When I brought home a Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Jefferson Airplane, Procol Harum, Country Joe and the Fish, Phil Ochs VINYL, slouching back on my teen-age bed and reading the liner notes on the back (what a pleasure) could take up a whole afternoon. I think the essay is on potentially solid ground in linking the music of the 60s, 70s eras to the tumultuous events of the time. My heart was broken when I was 16 when my then boyfriend joined the Weather Underground, along with several close friends. Identifying as a "hippie chick" meant the world of connection and sexuality was open to me, and very prominent (even if it led to trauma, as it did for many women of that era). Long-hairs were smiling and nodding at each other on citystreets. Some of the earliest concerts I went to are also vivid: Donovan, Rolling Stones, Dylan (they booed when he did the electric set), and a prominent memory of Jefferson Airplane at a Boston venue -- I'm probably 18, and a beautiful young woman danced across the stage in a see-through American flag, naked underneath. I remember feeling a rush of anxiety as "We are all outlaws in the eyes of America" rang out. What would happen next? Would this lead to an orgy? I was young and scared. Hosting a freeform radio show (WPKN) for multiple decades, I like to swing between the contemporary and folk/psychedelic. I'm glad Chenfeld described this phenomenon so well.
I fell into the rabbit hole of Tik Toks featuring Gen Z Stevie Nicks fans
Amazing