This is 75: Museum Designer, Artist, Author John Sunderland Responds to The Oldster Magazine Questionnaire
"Another life began for me at 70 when I realized that I felt just as alive as I did 30 years before."
From the time I was 10, I’ve been obsessed with what it means to grow older. I’m curious about what it means to others, of all ages, and so I invite them to take “The Oldster Magazine Questionnaire.”
Sometimes you’ll find responses from writers, musicians, and artists you’ve heard of—like Kate Pierson, Neko Case, Rosie O’Donnell, Ava Duvernay, Jerry Saltz, Lucy Sante, Ricki Lake, Hilma Wolitzer, Elizabeth Gilbert, Judith Viorst, Cheryl Strayed, Deesha Philyaw, Chloe Caldwell, etc.—but more often it will be people (of all ages) you haven’t heard of, Humans of New York-style. (Check out all the Oldster interviews…)
Here, author John Sunderland responds. -Sari Botton
PS If you’re enjoying the work I do here at Oldster, please consider supporting it by becoming a paid subscriber. 🙏 Through New Year’s Eve (TODAY), save 20% for life on annual paid subscriptions.
Yorkshire-born John Sunderland was a museum designer, animator, art director for film, and is currently a book illustrator, painter, and author. He became a freelance designer, filmmaker, and animator creating the iconic mascot Dusty Bin for Yorkshire Television’s hit game show 3-2-1 and collaborating with British comedy legend Kenny Everett.
In 1981, he was appointed Project Designer of Jorvik Viking Centre in York, envisioning and designing the ground-breaking, first experiential museum that changed cultural heritage interpretation forever. Over the next three decades, John designed 24 award-winning museums and cultural heritage centers worldwide and completed more than 150 international consultancy projects. He documented his creative process in detail, producing 160 journals now preserved at the Borthwick Institute for Archives, University of York.
In 2014 John published On My Way to Jorvik, a humorous memoir about his unconventional journey from Yorkshire schoolboy to radical museum designer of Jorvik Viking Centre. His latest memoir, The Last Shepherd’s Dog and Other Stories from a Rural Spanish Village High and Hidden in the Costa Blanca Mountains, was published in November.
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How old are you?
75 and counting (I hope).
Is there another age you associate with yourself in your mind? If so, what is it? And why, do you think?
Between 30 and 50, but honestly, I identify with whatever the current age and season of life I’m living in at the time. It’s all been inspiring and miraculous. Actually, another life began for me at 70 when I realized that I felt just as alive as I did 30 years before. A main reason for that was my creativity remained at full strength. I thought that it would change, and my muse could get a sulk on by moving to different parts of the world. But even with change of age and situation, I express myself using different materials relating to where I live, like carving walking sticks from local wood from the mountainside.
I remember walking over the Williamsburg Bridge to Manhattan from Ridgewood, Queens, where we lived, one day in 2010. I was about to turn 60. This old chap ran past me and other people walking. He was wearing some sort of crazy outfit, with a sign on his back which read, “Life Begins at 70.” I remember thinking how grateful I will be to make it to 70. And here I am still kicking, just like him.
Do you feel old for your age? Young for your age? Just right? Are you in step with your peers?
I had come close to dying and was extremely fortunate to have had heart surgery which I desperately needed at the Beth Israel Hospital in Boston. The year was 2001 and at the time I was living on Cape Cod, in the town of Provincetown. For a time, I thought 51, my age that year, was as far as I was meant to go. So, every year since I feel has been an extra bonus.
I feel completely at one with my current age of 75, and proud to have lived a full life, which continues with my wife and partner Kathy, here in Spain. Apart from the usual aches and pains, life in the right now, especially my creative life, is as thrilling and wonderful as at any time. I just don’t have as large an audience. And I’ll add my doctor told me just about a year ago that if I didn’t change my drinking habit, i.e. attempting to drain Spain of red wine, I wouldn’t need to plan for a retirement home. So, I packed in drinking.
Check out John’s wife Kathy Kirkpatrick’s Oldster Questionnaire:
What do you like about being your age?
The freedom that comes with age. Freedom that comes from knowing, believing in, and being yourself. Another gift comes with your unique panorama of life to look back on and learn from. I am more patient with myself and more understanding of others, accepting imperfections in myself and others. I have been married several times and see each marriage is a unique and extraordinary experience. Can’t speak for my exes though.
What is difficult about being your age?
Losing my toothbrush, searching for it, then finding it in my mouth.
What is surprising about being your age, or different from what you expected, based on what you were told?
Being absolutely gob-smacked to awake each morning to a new day and feel excited by it. Just how amazing it is choosing to get up in the morning, sometimes as early as 5 a.m. when I could sleep in every day until 10, and then discovering there’s a magic kingdom between dreams and reality.
Being surprised of what I am capable of at this age, mentally and physically. I grew up in a society that saw life to all intents and purposes ending at 60—that was it! Life can continue to be enriching and productive, if you choose. It’s like starting out in life with a library of just one book. By the time you’re in your 70s, you have a library of a hundred. That’s a lot of wonderful stories and true-life adventures.
I remember walking over the Williamsburg Bridge to Manhattan from Ridgewood, Queens, where we lived, one day in around 2010. I was about to turn 60. This old chap ran past me and other people walking. He was wearing some sort of crazy outfit, with a sign on his back which read, “Life Begins at 70.” I remember thinking how grateful I will be to make it to 70. And here I am still kicking, just like him.
A major thing was, and is, finding that you can do the seemingly impossible; stop drinking and start life over. You can free yourself of that manacle you didn’t admit you were wearing. It’s a miracle that your life-spirit, forever patient, waited for you to return and joyously opened the door of Life for you again. Honestly, to anyone on the brink of such a dramatic life changing change, do it, take that step. Yes, at first, it’s tough, but that passes quickly, and with every day you stand a little taller. You will amaze yourself; I promise.
I’m surprised by how ageless I feel, how sensuous, how passionate. That love never stops expanding. I and several of my contemporaries have made it to this age in good shape and with our appetites for life intact. I have also found as the sexual flame begins to dim with age for both of you, an increased sense of sensuality takes over.
What surprises, and on the downside, is what senseless and cruel things we are capable of as a species to ourselves and our home planet. It’s just plain stupid! Here we are on our little beautiful planet. Why can’t we be happy? I believe we are visited and always have been and observed by alien civilizations most likely over a long period of time. Possibly we’re like fish in an aquarium to them, or in a zoo, Planet Zoo. They have watched and waited for us to grow and evolve beyond our most base nature. But no, even though we are capable of great things, here we still are, red in tooth and claw! That’s what they see. And it looks as though as a species, we’re planning to export the same bad behavior to other planets and beyond.
A major thing was, and is, finding that you can do the seemingly impossible; stop drinking and start life over. You can free yourself of that manacle you didn’t admit you were wearing. It’s a miracle that your life-spirit, forever patient, waited for you to return and joyously opened the door of Life for you again. Honestly, to anyone on the brink of such a dramatic life changing change, do it, take that step.
What has aging given you? Taken away from you?
A wonderful, unique experience which continues with increased tolerance and empathy. Aging has given me great memories, some wonderful friendships, fantastic opportunities, experiences and adventures. One of my special friends is 80, and he’s still rocking on. I appreciate relationships, especially with children and partners, which made life worth living. And feeling wealthy and blessed with every breath.
Surviving friendships, and new ones, have become more significant in my life.
How has getting older affected your sense of yourself, or your identity?
I forgive myself. (You wouldn’t believe it though if you heard me cursing the stupid old sod!)
What are some age-related milestones you are looking forward to? Or ones you “missed,” and might try to reach later, off-schedule, according to our culture and its expectations?
Finding a common happy place with some of my children, now middle-aged people. I have five but only one is talking with me at the moment. And truly forgiving my own father.
What has been your favorite age so far, and why? Would you go back to this age if you could?
Honestly, all of it has been my favorite!
I’m surprised by how ageless I feel, how sensuous, how passionate. That love never stops expanding. I and several of my contemporaries have made it to this age in good shape and with our appetites for life intact. I have also found as the sexual flame begins to dim with age for both of you, an increased sense of sensuality takes over.
Is there someone who is older than you, who makes growing older inspiring to you? Who is your aging idol and why?
Before November of 2024, I would have listed Sir David Attenborough, poet Mary Oliver who I knew, artist David Hockney, writer Bill Bryson, and writer Alan Bennett. Right now, on a world stage, it would have to be Bernie Sanders. I lived in America for 14 years; in the context of what’s happening currently to that once luminous country, it has to be him. I appreciate his energy, leadership, sacrifice, and courage.
What aging-related adjustments have you recently made, style-wise, beauty-wise, health-wise?
I can finally enjoy a walk in the hills without my dog Pascual, who passed on two years ago and who I dearly miss. He was a shepherd’s dog, alive to everything around us, and was my sensory extension on our walks around our Spanish village. He’s the central character of my latest book.
Wearing next to nothing and nothing at home in the summer.
Living more simply, seeing God in Nature every day.
Wearing hats, I love hats.
Accepting that although most deafness can’t be cured it can be helped greatly if you wear the right hat!
Patterned handkerchiefs.
Wearing things for comfort like togas and sarongs.
The joy of my penknife and favourite fountain pen, discovering new pens and brushes.
Growing what hair I have left below my shoulders.
Drinking a glass of fresh lemon juice with a pinch of salt, first thing every morning,
Doing weights and exercises at home and at the village Gymnasia session on Monday evenings.
Walking in the local hills and mountains year-round.
Having two studios! That’s my great indulgence; one in the village where I paint, and my studio workspace outdoors at home with a view of Mediterranean Sea and mountains. I feel so very blessed every day as an artist and writer.
What’s an aging-related adjustment you refuse to make, and why?
Giving in to not being able to reach and trim my left foot big toenail! I allow myself to use age as an excuse. And I refuse to become bitter as time passes.
I can finally enjoy a walk in the hills without my dog Pascual, who passed on two years ago and who I dearly miss. He was a shepherd’s dog, alive to everything around us, and was my sensory extension on our walks around our Spanish village. He’s the central character of my latest book.
What turn of events had the biggest impact on your life? What took your life in a different direction, for better or worse?
The day my mother introduced me to her secret man-friend one rainy evening after she’d met me from choir-practice. I was 10 or 11. We met under the bus-station clock. I liked him, he shook my hand. Childhood was never the same for my sister and me after that. We became, shadow-children. It seemed half our lives were lived with mum and him in a secret and private world.
The same man, who later on had a job at the local television station, got me a freelance artwork commission there shortly after leaving art-college. That’s where I created Dusty Bin. That was definitely a life changer.
A revelatory thought which occurred in my 12-year-old mind, as a truant from a double math lesson—after spending time in the local museum, art museum and cinema, an idea popped into my head while walking to choir practice in the rain: “Why can’t museums be more like movies?”
And then, two decades later a collaborator handed me a pamphlet about how archaeologists in York were planning to build an underground museum. It was to house and display finds from their excavation at Coppergate, York, of the Viking era in the city of a thousand years before. That was it—I was off, totally convinced I had some ideas that could create a new and improved kind of museum experience. I told myself one way or another I would get the job. And I did so against all odds as I wasn’t qualified!
The completion of Jorvik Viking Centre and witnessing its ongoing success and popularity launched an unbelievable career. All because I followed my boyhood passion. As I wrote in On My Way to Jorvik, you can achieve extraordinary things if you put your heart, mind, and soul into it. I discovered the universe is alive and listening.
The suicide of someone close to me had a huge and lasting impact.
The completion of Jorvik Viking Centre and witnessing its ongoing success and popularity launched an unbelievable career. All because I followed my boyhood passion. As I wrote in On My Way to Jorvik, you can achieve extraordinary things if you put your heart, mind, and soul into it. I discovered the universe is alive and listening.
What is your number one regret in life? If you could do it all over again, what is the biggest thing you’d do differently?
That my father never kicked a ball around with me. Being the cause of emotional pain in others whilst on the other end of the scale, being blinded by false love and loving too much. Not being able to fully learn Spanish, never mind the local dialect. As a kid, that for no real reason I shot a sparrow with my new air-rifle when I could have used a can for a target. And that I stole a pencil-sharpener from a counter at Woolworths.
What is high up on your “bucket list?” What do you hope to achieve, attain, or plain enjoy before you die?
To continue writing books that people enjoy. Similarly with painting. I’ve written all my career as part of my work. After I retired, in 2014 my first book was published and my second was just published. Before and between those, a book of poetry, three sci-fi novels, and at least one children’s book lay on my shelves. My wife keeps at me to polish them and get them published before I die. Writing magical realism (fiction and memoir based) has opened up a whole new field to me. I love telling stories, making people smile and feel good inside about being a human. It’s just brilliant!
Nudism as way of life, and at home when it’s feasible and warm enough! (Although I do miss pockets.) Creating a painting or story I am fully satisfied with when completed. Ensuring a home for my collection of hand-carved walking sticks, and artwork. I hope that my journals, now housed in the Borthwick Institute, become a well-used educational resource for creative students and people generally.
Is there a piece of advice you were given, that you live by? If so, what was it, and who offered it to you?
“As one door closes another one opens.” Jack, my first father-in-law, said. He was a scrap metal dealer, and lived by that belief.
“Be true to yourself.” My mother said, when in her 60s.
Bucket list item: Nudism as way of life, and at home when it’s feasible and warm enough! (Although I do miss pockets.)
What are your plans for your body when you’re done using it? Burial? Cremation? Body Farm?Other?
My body will be donated to a university here in Spain for medical research.
And what do you expect to happen to your “soul” or “spirit” after you die?
I believe in Infinity and growth of the Soul.
What’s your philosophy on celebrating birthdays as an adult? How do you celebrate yours?
With gratitude, delight, wife, friends, family hopefully, and non-alcoholic beer!
Check out all the Oldster interviews…
Oldster Magazine explores what it means to travel through time in a human body, at every phase of life. It’s a reader-supported publication that pays essayists and interviewers. To support this work, please become a paid subscriber. 🙏 Now through New Year’s (TODAY!!), save 20% off annual subscriptions, for life.
Based on personal experience, I am willing to bet a hand-carved walking stick (although I don’t need one) that John’s mother’s adage “be true to yourself” will be far easier now without the booze. I have written several autobiographical books about that. I also just turned 75, three days ago, and am, like John, amazed that I am in a writing renaissance as I was at age 34. Peace, Dwight Lee Wolter.
When I grow up, I want to be like John Sunderland. Have a happy, healthy 2026 Sari, John, and all. Ric Bayly (age 72)